Anonymous, if you are reading this, please feel free to interact with me through the comments section...but if that is not your choice then I invite you to interact with me privately. If you'd like, please leave a comment indicating this and I will give you my email address.
For the sake of context, then, I reproduce here your comments:
I have no desire to be contentious or anything like that but I would like share my feelings. I know that Jesus Christ is my Savior. It is ONLY through and by Him that we can be saved. It is only through His atonement that we can be reconciled with God (Rom 5:10). We cannot save ourselves from our own sins, it is only through Christ. I don't believe through only our own efforts we can be saved...it is through Jesus Christ, after all that we can do. We are saved by His grace. I believe you are Christian, but I am Christian, too. I know Christ lives, I have experienced the power of His Atonement in my own life. I think that we are all waging a war with sin . . . but what a glorious thing we know that Christ has won that victory for us, if we pray for the power of the Atonement in our lives. I was born to 'mormon' parents, it is what my parents taught me, but I have also knelt on my knees to ask the Father, with faith, if what I am learning is true. I have asked in faith to know that Christ died for my sins. I know He did, and He now lives so that we can live again. Through the fruits of the Spirit I know that my prayers have been answered by God.
First of all, I want to thank you for your comments and do not at all think that you were being contentious, indeed, I admire your desire to defend what you believe and to share your thoughts on the matter. So rather than contentious, I observed nothing but respectful disagreement in what you wrote and only wish that everyone who disagreed with me could do so in as gracious a manner! :) I hope that in this response you will find the same gracious spirit and that I will live up to the example you have set. Of course, I intend to disagree with you in some very critical things, but I do not want to do so in a condescending manner. Instead, my prayer is that you will read into my heart and know that what I write is motivated by a desire to see Jesus glorified through the salvation of those who do not know Him as Lord. There is no way, however, that I can minimize the impact of my words when I say that if you are a Mormon (as I believe your comments indicate) then I do not believe you are truly saved, nor will you enter into the kingdom of God. It pains me to be so blunt because I work with at least two ladies who are of the Mormon faith and I know them to be wonderful and sincere. And yet, sincerity will not be enough to save them from hell (Matthew 7:21-23)
The problem as I see it is that the Mormon church uses the language of mainstream Christianity without attributing the same meaning to that language. So while we can both agree that we are justified by faith, that Christ is our Savior, that He died for our sins, and that we are saved by grace, we often mean completely different things! What is more, when we speak of passags like Romans 10:9-10 we must keep in mind also Romans 9:6 which says "...they are not all Israel who are of Israel." In other words, there is something more to being a Believer than affirming something. There must be a correct understanding of what the Word of God teaches. Otherwise we may all just as well embrace Jehovah's Witnesses as our brothers in Christ...we may as well embrace the Unitarians as our brothers in Christ. We may as well forget the Reformation and all that those men of faith struggled against and embrace Catholicism as just another branch of Christianity. It is not. And none of those other sects I mentioned are either. Neither, dear commenter, is Mormonism.
But how can I say this? You have acknowledged Christ as Savior. You have affirmed that you have experienced the power of His atonement. Does this not make us fellow partakers of the Promise? Rather than addressing these questions directly...allow me to ask the following questions. These questions, I pray, will show that while one of the Mormon faith can readily affirm some historic confessions of Christianity (again, with different meanings), in practice the Mormon religion is far removed from that historic Christianity which they claim to hold.
1. Is Jesus the spirit-brother of Satan?
2. Is Jesus one of many gods?
3. Is salvation by grace alone through faith alone? (i.e. nothing we do can save us)
4. When you speak of "Heavenly Father" do you mean it in a literal sense? (i.e. through actual physical relations with your spirit mother He gave birth to you, his "spirit child)
5. Did Adam sin in the garden of Eden?
How would you answer these quesions?
This is how I would answer them:
1 AND 2)
I am putting questions 1 and 2 together because the way I will show that the Mormon position is false is to show that Jesus IS God. Doing this, of course, will refute the idea that Satan and Christ can be brothers (especially in light of the book of Isaiah...but more on that later)
According to the LDS website, Satan is a spirit son of God the Father. Likewise, Jesus is a spirit son as well, though the only Begotten in the flesh...(emphasis mine). Therefore, Jesus and Satan are brothers according to Mormon teaching!
How does this align with Scripture?
Well in order to properly answer this, let us consider Jesus Christ...just who was He? Understand this, if He is God rather than a god then those who teach otherwise are in a bit of a jam, for they have been denying His very essence. And just as Jehova's Witnesses affirm Jesus' divinity without giving Him the glory He deserves as God, Mormonism teaches (correct me if I am wrong) that Jesus is a god just like any good Mormon man can someday hope to be. The key here being the implicit acceptance of the existence of many gods...of polytheism. I imagine that as a Mormon you are well aware of this peculiar belief. Indeed, on the website of your organization I found an article that says the following:
"This insight of the gospel into the subject of outer space is what makes the whole subject meaningful. When you look up into the heavens at night and see the countless numbers of stars, it is easy to imagine other people “out there” being tested and tried and experiencing struggles and joys somewhat similar to those we are going through. But the most exciting thing about this whole basic and fundamental concept is that it is true. Totally and completely true. People growing, developing, and finding fulfillment—out there! The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man. … he was once a man like us … God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth. …” 6
“If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and … God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. … And where was there ever a father without first being a son? … If Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? …
“He [Jesus] laid down His life, and took it up, the same as His Father had done before.” 7
Long before our God began his creations, he dwelt on a mortal world like ours, one of the creations that his Father had created for him and his brethren. He, with many of his brethren, was obedient to the principles of the eternal gospel. One among these, it is presumed, was a savior for them, and through him they obtained a resurrection and an exaltation on an eternal, celestial world. 8 Then they gained the power and godhood of their Father and were made heirs of all that he had, continuing his works and creating worlds of their own for their own posterity—the same as their Father had done before, and his Father, and his Father, and on and on...[t]he great hope of the gospel for us is that we may come to a oneness with our Lord and our Father and partake of this same work and glory and godhood" (emphasis mine)
All of this, dear anonymous, is in direct conflict with Christianity...indeed it is blasphemy to say of God that He was once a created creature!! So I don't hesitate to give you the right to claim that your religion is true, and to proselytize with vigor and zeal, but I do take issue with your claim that our Christianity is one and the same...for your religion is far from Christian. And while I thank you for saying that you believe I am a Christian, this does not mean that you too are a Christian. Our respective faiths are worlds apart, and whichever one of is wrong is not a Christian! Lest you think I am trying to antagonize you, I assure you I don't intend to do so. Indeed, an elder of your religion had this to say:
"The gift of eternal life cannot be obtained outside of the Church established by the Father and the Son. The church set up by Christ in the meridian of time became apostate following the ministry of his apostles, and thus was steeped in error by false gospel teachings, changing ordinances, and loss of divine authority. The same condition prevailed during the dark ages, requiring a new gospel dispensation—the restoration of Christ’s church to earth. I testify this restoration occurred in the year 1830, through the Prophet Joseph Smith." ("The Path to Eternal Life" Ensign January 1974. Elder Delbert L. Stapley, a member of the Council of Twelve) - emphasis mine
What does this elder of your religion say? Not a Mormon? You are not a Christian (as Mormonism understands the term)! So let's admit that there is a significant difference between what we believe...differences that make one the true faith and the other a cult.
But let us return to looking at my answers to those questions posed above. So let us look first at some very important verses in the book of Isaiah:
The first one is Isaiah 6:1-5.
I have included the first five verses in order that you might understand the context here, which is of course the vision/calling of Isaiah to be a prophet. He sees God upon His throne, the angels of the Lord praising His holiness. Now look with me at John 12:27-41. I have again included a bunch of verses to make sure that you understand what John is saying...he is speaking specifically of Jesus...then in verses 37-40 he makes reference to Isaiah 6...then note what he says at the end in verse 41..."These things Isaish said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him."What did he just say? Whom did Isaish see and whose glory did he speak of? Well....draw your own conclusions but make sure you interact with the text when doing so! I think you will find that John, writing not only with hindsight but through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, adds these narrator comments to the event he desrcribes because he is still amazed that for three years he walked with God Himself!
These next passages I'm not going to link to so you'll want your Bible handy...but here goes, look these up and compare them:
Isaiah 41:4 (God the Father) Revelation 22:12-13 (Jesus)
Isaiah 43:11 (God the Father) Titus 2:13 (Jesus)
Isaiah 44:6 says in part "...Besides Me there is no God."
See also Isaiah 45:5-7
Let us look also at the classic passage in John 1:1-5 And just so you understand completely to whom this refers, make sure you read John 1:14
Now, in light of these verses...how would a Christian answer questions 1 and 2? NO...Jesus is NOT the spirit brother of Satan. NO...Jesus is not one of many gods. The verses above lead us to one of two conclusions...
a) There are contradictions in the Bible. For the Father to claim to be the Alpha and the Omega and then for Jesus to do the same is a contradiction...how could they both lay claim to the same title? If this is true, then I may as well give up my faith for if the Bible is not trustworthy then upon what authority can I base my belief system? A burning in the bosom? I think not.
b) The Trinity is true. No doubt you are aware that this is the conclusion I come to, for this is the teaching of Biblical Christianity. A person can say they believe Jesus died for their sins and that only through Him can they be saved, but if they also reject His unique divinity, His equality with the Father, and the revelation of Scripture that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are God, then they are not a Christian. If one were to point to this as evidence that the Christian therefore worships many gods also (as the Muslims do), then it points to a huge ignorance of the Bible...and maybe this will be the subject of a future post...who knows!
What about questions 3?
Well I can point to my first post for the answer to this, but also see this link where you read the following:
"In the Church, an ordinance is a sacred, formal act performed by the authority of the priesthood. Some ordinances are essential to our exaltation. These ordinances are called saving ordinances. They include baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the temple endowment, and the marriage sealing. With each of these ordinances, we enter into solemn covenants with the Lord."
Am I reading too much into this if I conclude by it that Mormonism does not truly subscribe to the doctrine of salvation by faith along through grace alone? If you say I am mistaken, then please explain to me the parable of the bicycle, which I have heard of from at least two Mormons. See also the Mormon teaching on eternal life.
For those of you who don't know what the parable of the bicycle is, here it is:
Sometimes we feel very inadequate when we compare ourselves to others. We may even begin to despair. But when the Lord looks at us, he measures us against ourselves. His expectations are based on our abilities. He simply asks, Are you doing all that you can do at this time? Consider the principle of tithing. The man with ten million dollars is expected to pay one million dollars in tithing. The child with ten cents is expected to pay one penny. Both offerings are a full tithing in the eyes of the Lord.
In our home we have what is now called the parable of the bicycle. It dates back to when my daughter Sarah, who was seven years old at the time, came in and said, “Dad, can I have a bike? I’m the only kid on the block who doesn’t have one.”
Well, I didn’t have the money then for a bike, so I stalled her. I said, “Sure, Sarah.”
She said, “How? When?”
I said, “You save all your pennies, and soon you’ll have enough for a bike.” And she went away.
A couple of weeks later I heard a “clink, clink” in Sarah’s bedroom. I asked, “Sarah, what are you doing?”
She came to me with a little jar, a slit cut in the lid, and a bunch of pennies in the bottom. She said, “You promised me that if I saved all my pennies, pretty soon I’d have enough for a bike. And, Daddy, I’ve saved every single one of them.”
My heart melted. My daughter was doing everything in her power to follow my instructions. I hadn’t actually lied to her. If she saved all of her pennies, she would eventually have enough for a bike, but by then she would want a car. I said, “Let’s go look at bikes.”
We went to every store in town. Finally we found it—the perfect bicycle. She was thrilled. Then she saw the price tag, and her face fell. She started to cry. “Oh, Dad, I’ll never have enough for a bicycle!”
So I said, “Sarah, how much do you have?”
She answered, “Sixty-one cents.”
“I’ll tell you what. You give me everything you’ve got and a hug and a kiss, and the bike is yours.” Then I drove home very slowly because she insisted on riding the bike home.
As I drove beside her, I thought of the atonement of Christ. We all desperately want the celestial kingdom. We want to be with our Father in Heaven. But no matter how hard we try, we come up short. At some point all of us must realize, “I can’t do this by myself. I need help.” Then it is that the Savior says, in effect, All right, you’re not perfect. But what can you do? Give me all you have, and I’ll do the rest.
Anyone at all familiar with the Biblical teaching of salvation knows well that we do NOTHING, not even one tiny part, in getting ourselves to heaven. Ephesians 2:1 says that "you He made alive, who were once dead in trespasses and sins." To say that we do even a portion of the work, and He does even 99.9% is not Scriptural at all. (See here for the story in its context)
Question 4)
Mormonis teaches that "God the Father is the Supreme Being in whom we believe and whom we worship. He is the ultimate Creator, Ruler, and Preserver of all things. He is perfect, has all power, and knows all things. He "has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's" (D&C 130:22)."
In addition to this, it teaches that "We are all literally children of God, spiritually begotten in the premortal life. As His children, we can be assured that we have divine, eternal potential and that He will help us in our sincere efforts to reach that potential. " (you can see this quote and the one before it here)
I don't even know what to say about this one...aside from denying its truth of course. If it weren't such a serious matter I might be tempted to think it funny, but this is indeed what Mormonism teaches. Dear anonymous...I challenge you to show me one verse in the Bible that would teach this doctrine of your organization. If the answers I have given to questions 1 and 2 are correct, then the Mormon answer to this question is also false. Furthermore, it is blasphemy, for where in the Word do we see even a hint that our Father has had sexual relations with His celestial wife in order to populate this planet? Truly this teaching is abhorrent and I urge you to look closely at the Word and may it pierce your soul and cause scales to fall away from your eyes...
Question 5)
This one is interesting and I want to present four powerful Scripture passages before I point out how Mormonism teaches the exact opposite. I will point primarily to Romans since within its chapters we find one of the clearest teachings on human sin and its nature. Again, have your Bible ready for I won't link to the passages:
Romans 3:23
Romans 5:12
Romans 5:18
1 Corinthians 15:21
What do you think? Does the Bible say that Adam sinned and that all of us are heirs of that sin? Born in bondage to sin because of Adam? The answer is yes.
What does Mormonis teach about this:
"As we “talk [more] of Christ,” 1 the gospel’s doctrinal fulness will come out of obscurity. For example, some of our friends can’t see how our Atonement beliefs relate to our beliefs about becoming more like our Heavenly Father. Others mistakenly think our Church is moving toward an understanding of the relationship between grace and works that draws on Protestant teachings. Such misconceptions prompt me to consider today the Restoration’s unique Atonement doctrine.
The Lord restored His gospel through Joseph Smith because there had been an apostasy. Since the fifth century, Christianity taught that Adam and Eve’s Fall was a tragic mistake, which led to the belief that humankind has an inherently evil nature. That view is wrong—not only about the Fall and human nature, but about the very purpose of life.
The Fall was not a disaster. It wasn’t a mistake or an accident. It was a deliberate part of the plan of salvation. We are God’s spirit “offspring,” 2 sent to earth “innocent” 3 of Adam’s transgression" emphasis mine (see here for the context)
Note first Bruce C. Hafen's remark in the first bolded section...are Protestants (read Christians) and Mormons the same? No they are not.
But then look at the second part..."the belief that humankind has an inherently evil nature...is wrong." Oh...so is Mr. Hagen right or the Word of God?
Keep reading:
"President Joseph Fielding Smith (1876–1972) taught: “When Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden, they did not have to die. They could have been there to this day. They could have continued on for countless ages. There was no death then. But it would have been a terrific calamity if they had refrained from taking the fruit of that tree, for they would have stayed in the Garden of Eden and we would not be here; nobody would be here except Adam and Eve. So Adam and Eve partook.” 9"
"Adam and Eve kept the first commandment to multiply and replenish the earth. Their bodies were changed, and mortality, parenthood, and eventual death came upon them. Eternal family relationships became possible. The Fall was a “glorious necessity to open the doorway toward eternal life,” said Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. 10 As a result, we have been blessed with the opportunity to come to this earth." The above two quotes can be found here
Despite the intensity with which the Mormon church has in recent years protested the Christian charge of being a cult...despite its desire for mainstream acceptance, it is quite clear that its teachings are so contrary to Scriptural truth that there is no possible way a follower of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ can embrace them as fellow Believers.
So dear anonymous...I do believe that you are sincere in what you believe...but unless that sincerity is grounded on Truth it is meaningless. Jesus said in John 15:6 that He is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No ones comes to the Father except through [Him]." So although you asked the father, with faith, whether what you were learning was true, and you received some type of confirmation from this father, it was not the Father as revealed in the Scripture...for if that spirit gave you assurance that Mormonism is true then it was not of the Father. Read the words of Paul:
"...even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than waht we have preached to you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8
I pray that you will take to heart what I have said here...some of what I have said may seem harsh to you, but I assure you my intention is not to antagonize...as I've said, I cannot help but reply in the only manner that I do so, knowing fully well that many people are offended by biblical truths...nonetheless, we cannot choose what we will and will not say, one can only tell the truth and let the Spirit to the rest. May He do a mighty work in your life, revealing to you His truth's.
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